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do you have any idea what "a11y" means?

please boost this, I'm actually curious

if I could do this again, I would try to find some way to prevent people voting "yes of course" after reading "a11y" as "ally"

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I would also probably say 'ironic' or 'terrible' instead of idiotic

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turns out words have meanings, both ex- and implicit

do numeronyms have meanings? jury's still out

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@proto yes and it's disgustingly and ironically inaccessible

i didn't wanna call it something ableist

@00dani I don't wanna remake the poll now but I'll try to keep that in mind re: ableism

@proto @00dani this entire thread is just swimming in a sea of irony

@penny shorthand for "accessibility"

because there are 11 letters between A and Y

@proto Had to look it up, don't know the community at all, but I have this inherent distrust of any project whose contributors are mostly white guys

@Kyresti I have no opinion on the software project(?) that has adopted this term, other than my entire lack of respect for someone who sees such an inaccessible phrase and decides it's a good idea to run with it

@proto it's not something I'd expect to see outside of tech circles though, along with its counterpart i18n

@xmakina I've 100% definitely seen i18n before and I still had to look it up just now

maybe because nobody actually says the root word?

I guess l12n wasn't cryptic enough?

@proto I wouldn't expect it to be cryptic in context. Obviously some numpty might start using it in other ways, but my understanding is numerical contractions exist only to use in conversations about the topic to save you a whole bunch of keystrokes when discussing

@xmakina if that's the case, then the people using the contractions should know how to properly program the macro on their own machine instead of expecting every reader to mentally unpack it

@proto I feel like your making assumptions that don't track. I can write javascript for accessibility development, I wouldn't know where to begin with keyboard macros for my pc or mobile

@xmakina I guess, perversely, i have /higher/ expectations for tech focused workers than you do?

I make $14.50/hr in retail and I still know how to set keyboard macros in windows with autohotkey

@proto lol yep! It's extremely rare to find someone who's an operating system power user in the sector

@proto like if you've got a thread going about accessibility, and you have to keep saying accessibility and accessibility is something that can be very complex to implement, then, yeah, maybe dropping it to a11y is something your team members want to do.

Putting "a11y" just as a general shorthand though or worse as a header or otherwise devoid of immediate context is a chud idea, though

@xmakina For reference: I've done localisation of webapps, even using packages that have "i18n" or "l12n" in the name, and I *still* had no idea until now it actually stood for anything. I just assumed it was some old standards ID that had hung around for ages (like an RFC nr, but a different standards set).

I get that it's nice to use in code for compactness, but context is important.

@proto I fell directly to 'we have auto complete, abbreviation is over' along with 'never in history has counting letters been an accepted form of abbreviation' only to realize most people were slow typists (I'm high wpm enough to not care about word length) on systems that (to my knowledge) have nothing like auto complete. But you addressed this with the mention of hotkeys and scripting, which everyone who can (myself included) should learn. Screen readers have got to hate this bs too. So I still fall firmly toward accessibility mattering more than overly modern cleverness.

@proto I also feel the implicit pun between 'a11y' and 'ally' is highly inappropriate for the abbreviation to possess given that its own inaccessibility is poor allyship.

@proto seems like just a funny way to say ally ??

@julia *buzzer sounds*

I can see why you'd think that, but it's entirely wrong!

it's shorthand for "accessibility"

A [eleven letters] Y

@proto @julia I actually thought so, too, before I looked it up.

What's wrong with an accessibility program/goal again?

Honest question here, people seem to dislike it, but I don't see why...

@proto Yeah. I don't think it's particularly worse than other abbreviations?

@proto No idea what it was, I had to look it up. I'm mad now. How the fuck is "a11y" itself accessible? It could mean literally anything! I was half afraid it was some new fucked-up alt-reich/cryptofash dogwhistle.

"a11y," as an alleged word & as a project, feels like something a bunch of techbros decided to do without asking anyone & have continued to do without consulting anyone, because if they'd asked anyone they would've been told "Just use the word 'accessibility' and stop being clever."

@proto accessibility.

What's is fun, shorthand is less accessible to those who don't know how programmers like to shorten various long terms, like localization -> l10n, internationalization -> i18n and so accessibility -> a11y.

@proto 'idiotic' is an unfortunate choice of words though

@proto Has said earlier some logos made of it read like "ally"

@proto Yes, but it took me ages to learn what "dev 🥑 " was supposed to mean.

@proto none of these options cover "yes, and yes, it's frustrating, but I get why typing 'accessibility' over and over again would be a problem (especially on Twitter when it had a 140-character limit) and I'm not mad about it any more".

@packbat @proto

It's actually not easy typing 'accessibility' right; now that I see it in front of me, I see: ok, double-c and double-s but only one 'l'.
I have a hard time remembering those things.
Typing 'a11y' right is way easier!

@el_joa @proto also, i18n is spelled both "internationalisation" and "internationalization", meaning that the word itself needs to be internationalized

like I said, I get it - it just kinda sucks

- Packdragon 🐲

@proto clarifying - I answered yes and it's idiotic - I'm hoping that we meant the same thing, that the spelling is idiotic, not the concept of accessibility...

@proto I wonder if it's the same in all languages, or if you have to change it during i18n.

@proto Why does it actually matter what it means? Are users struggling to find accessibility because it's coded behind a11y? Do you need to know that it decodes to anything, other than have a vague asociation with accessibility when working on projects that use it?

@proto Oh! I read it as "accessibility is bad" not "the nature of this acronym is counter to its meaning"

@proto so a11y is not accessible... but good enough for a tacit handshake

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